Own Your Time Kat Wong
What if you could build a meaningful, impactful career without sacrificing your time, your health or your sanity? In this powerful episode, Sarah is joined by Kat Wong, a multi award-winning broadcaster whose career has spanned the BBC, Apple and now her own platform, Oh Yeah, supporting mid-career professionals navigating change.
From hitting the “pips” live on air to leading international teams, Kat shares what decades in high-pressure, time-sensitive roles have taught her about boundaries, leadership and working with intention. This is a must-listen for anyone feeling stretched thin, curious about career pivots or seeking permission to protect their time.
In this episode we cover:
Kat’s 30-year journey from radio to tech to solopreneurship
What it really felt like to work in live broadcasting - and how it shaped her relationship with time
Pivoting into a global role at Apple and managing work across multiple time zones
How she created a “broadcast critical” mindset for managing urgency and protecting boundaries
The power of leading with intention and modelling work-life balance for your team
What Kat’s learned about guilt, clarity and saying no with confidence
The somatic (mind-body) connection to decision-making and burnout
Why she built Oh Yeah - a platform and seasonal guide for experienced but time-poor professionals exploring what’s next
Read the transcript:
Please note - this podcast episode was transcribed by an AI tool, there may be some typos or errors.
00:00:06:01 - 00:00:35:11
Sarah
What if running your business didn't mean sacrificing your time, your health, or your weekends? Welcome to On Your Time. The podcast where we trade hustle culture for mindful, sustainable success. I'm Sarah Stewart and around here we are all about getting more time for what really matters. Today's guest is someone who knows a lot about navigating pressure, protecting your time, and building a career with intention.
00:00:35:13 - 00:01:10:09
Sarah
I'm joined by Kat Wong, a multi award winning broadcaster whose career has taken her from the fast paced world of BBC radio one to leading global campaigns at Apple, all while patenting little ones and holding true to her values. Now she's the founder of Oh Yeah platform, supporting people through mid-career change with more clarity, confidence and balance. And she brings a grounded perspective on time, from live newsrooms to juggling global time zones.
00:01:10:17 - 00:01:30:23
Sarah
She's spent decades learning how to hold boundaries, focus on what really matters, and importantly, support her teams to do the same. It's a great conversation about balance, leadership, and redefining success on your own terms. Let's get into it.
00:01:30:26 - 00:01:32:26
Sarah
Kat, welcome.
00:01:32:28 - 00:01:35:16
Kat
Thank you so much for having me here, Sarah.
00:01:35:18 - 00:01:59:03
Sarah
Yeah. No. It's great. I'm excited for this conversation and to to dig in that you have had a really exciting career, at least exciting to me. And I'm sure it will be exciting to the listeners as well. Like, we had over to you. And you can do a little bit of, like who you are, and a little bit about your story.
00:01:59:06 - 00:02:20:24
Kat
Yes. So my career has spanned over 30 years. I started quite young. So, thankfully, this podcast is not being visually recorded because you'd be saying, oh my God, you look so young. But I started when I was 18 in radio, and I was, lucky enough to have a radio station down the road or in the same city I grew up in London.
00:02:20:24 - 00:02:43:10
Kat
So was I to start young because I was able to stay at my mom's mom dad's house. But yeah, working in radio for the last, worked there for 25 years and so learned a lot in live broadcasting, did a lot of documentaries, also freelance as an entertainment reporter, which was quite a bizarre sort of time. My love doing the red carpet.
00:02:43:12 - 00:03:06:19
Kat
Scarlett Johansson is very nice, by the way. I was very early door there, Colin Firth. Lovely. So I had a bit of a at a time there, but dominated really with live radio, working at radio one, commercial radio and chart shows as well, radio four, Woman's Hour and Factual, as well as six music. And one extra.
00:03:06:19 - 00:03:30:18
Kat
I was an exact there. So yeah, a lot of time spent in radio. And then I moved over to Apple, in 2016 when they started a platform called Beats on Radio, which is now Apple Music Radio. And so I went there to head up the European operations and programing, from London, another 24 hour station, platform there.
00:03:30:20 - 00:04:04:26
Kat
So that was an incredible time. Because Apple had never had a radio station before. So really it was like a start up. So I did that for six years, and then I moved over to a global role where I, developed a initiative called Creative Studios, which is essentially, training resources. And, lots of, hands on sessions around the world, to, to underrepresented communities, to really unlock their potential.
00:04:04:29 - 00:04:28:24
Kat
So I did that for about a year and then headed up, international teams for a program called Today Apple, which runs in all the stores, around, around the world, again, hands on sessions as well. And then about four months ago, I left Apple to set up. Oh yeah. Which is a platform and an inclusive platform to really help people explore career changes.
00:04:28:26 - 00:04:33:29
Kat
And particularly for those who are experienced or time poor. And this is where we are right now.
00:04:34:02 - 00:04:52:17
Sarah
Yeah. Oh, I love that. So much to talk about. When we link the, your broadcast industry and thinking through, like, a lens of time and time management, how did that shape your relationship with time?
00:04:52:19 - 00:05:23:16
Kat
I was thinking about this and trying to think of another role other than sports, athletics or, you know, a clock or watchmaker, which is so anchored by my time, because of the fact that time in live radio or for certain parts was just non-negotiable. You know, you had to hit the pips. Anyone listening to Radio Fool sometimes crush the pips, you know, at the News Junction, or you had to fit in a number of features or songs in a certain, you know, program duration.
00:05:23:19 - 00:05:45:08
Kat
And then on top of that, in live radio, you had to be current or reactive to what was happening in the world, particularly when I was working in newsrooms, or was when you really had to reflect the mood of the nation, you know, when something happened. And so that meant that the majority of the job, certainly either as an editor or a producer on a live show.
00:05:45:11 - 00:06:16:18
Kat
You you're working right up to the wire with scripts, you know, turning around something very quickly to be as relevant as you could be for the audiences to connect. So there was a kind of constant alert and a need to react. And so my relationship with Tyne was also felt through my whole body because of the sheer adrenaline and even talking about live radio now, even though I left it quite a while ago, you know, certainly producing Annoyed Studios, even now, I can feel just talking about it.
00:06:16:20 - 00:06:33:14
Kat
You know, I and what was interesting years after leaving radio was that sense of needing to run everything as if it was a tight schedule. So I'd be in meetings at Apple and I would run, you know, with my team, but I would constantly signal and I was fed back. You know what? Almost running out of time, right?
00:06:33:20 - 00:07:02:00
Kat
Or needing to, you know, move someone on, you know, who was hogging the kind of meeting to ensure quieter voices and their opinions were also represented. So it's always been in the back of my mind. And so I've had to really almost deal that kind of sheer adrenaline and pace. When I was in retail. So yeah, overall, it's been quite a journey and really unshackle myself from old habits, and reactivity, you know, from my old role.
00:07:02:03 - 00:07:40:12
Sarah
Yeah. Interesting. It's, yeah, that's really interesting. And I really hadn't quite thought of it. Just in terms of that, like the pressure and, and and. Yeah, as you say, how that actually feels. I mean, there's certain, there's certain probably points in my past where I acutely feel that rush and the example I'm thinking of is like, you know, leaving an office and having to get across Glasgow and rush hour to go pick up kids from school and like, you know, and that and that, sense of urgency and things.
00:07:40:14 - 00:07:45:08
Sarah
But yeah, to have that on you all the time, that's a lot.
00:07:45:11 - 00:08:05:22
Kat
Yeah. And do you know what? It's funny when you talk about sort of rushing to get the kids. It's a look that you can recognize from every single working parent in the office around about 230 that going, am I going to hit the trains on time to pick up my kid? But that sheer sense of adrenaline, I mean, I think the worst example really, and I will say it's the worst.
00:08:05:22 - 00:08:27:07
Kat
When I was doing the chart show and I was 23, 24 at a time, looking after a national chart show. And this is to, what, 3 million people back in those days? You know, this is pre social media. And so it was a real appointment to listen. But to fit in 40 songs in three hours. And I remember actually my what one person was doing it.
00:08:27:09 - 00:08:49:25
Kat
I was shadowing them actually before I properly started. And this was a grown man and the sphere on his face of not actually actually hitting number one on time, it was absolutely real. It just brought people out in sweat. Right? So it's it's such a weird thing and that kind of thing of like, you know, fitting in 43 minute, 30 songs in three hours.
00:08:49:25 - 00:08:57:21
Kat
It's a back timing thing. So in Netherlands it never leaves. But yeah, thankfully I never have to be in that situation again.
00:08:57:24 - 00:09:12:23
Sarah
Yeah. Wow. And and then so what was it like then pivoting from radio into Apple and and how did that then shift things you were saying there. Before about like the unlearning that had to come.
00:09:12:25 - 00:09:34:21
Kat
Yeah. I mean, when I moved over to Apple, it was to, start the radio side of the business. And so I had a team there, but, you know, just working sort of backwards. I remember when I was discussing the role and obviously it's Apple, right? It's a worldwide, global biggest tech company. One of the biggest tech companies in the world.
00:09:34:23 - 00:09:56:24
Kat
And genuinely so my first reaction was, oh my God, the US timezones. And it is all right. And my kid at the time was at nursery. And so if anyone who has, you know, slightly older kids now, you kind of you remember that time where, you know, they get onto the swing of things, they've got their own sort of timetable.
00:09:56:27 - 00:10:22:27
Kat
But I remember being really reassured because, the bosses knew I had a young kid and, and part of the reason how I got the opportunity to, you know, interview with you know, for the job was because of a broadcaster called Zane Lowe, who I produced back at radio one, and he moved over to Apple. And it was quite a big deal that he, he moved over there to, to set up the radio station.
00:10:22:29 - 00:10:43:07
Kat
And I remember him calling me about the gig and, and I'm like, what is this? Because it was real. It was a real secret scene. What? He was doing it. I thought it was a big announcement that he left radio one, and I remember him calling me the next day after it was announced. And so he talked about the gig, and I just went where the studio and he said, where do you live?
00:10:43:10 - 00:11:06:03
Kat
I told him that and he just went, the studio is just down the road from me. And I was like, I'll take the job because it was like it was unbelievable. It was within walking distance of the studio from my house extremely well. And so that's at the edge of it, where I could drop my kid off and then walk to work, and pick up a pastry halfway.
00:11:06:05 - 00:11:32:26
Kat
And so but yeah, that feeling of working for us, but I think also managing that kind of time and energy, I was very lucky where that role, when I first moved to Apple was the most senior role in Europe in terms of the, you know, looking after the operations and the the team there. So I had this very unusual, position and privilege in corporate culture to really scale up the team.
00:11:32:29 - 00:12:02:24
Kat
And we were in our own building because of the radio studios. And so I really was able to create the working culture there alongside the team. Right. And so kind of a start up mentality. And that never happens when you get into a corporate of that size and so for me it was a real it was such a strong passion that if I could afford that privilege of having a good working life balance and being able to call things out in terms of like, no, I will be home for dinner time, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to make sure my team has that as well.
00:12:02:26 - 00:12:24:13
Kat
And actually, throughout my six years working in the radio side of that for, I think about five people on my team, all men had had, became first time parents. And so it was it was amazing to be able to go. Of course, you can go home at 3:00 or course you can do that if you can do it.
00:12:24:21 - 00:12:51:16
Kat
And obviously people take calls at home. Right. And so there was no there was none of that kind of fear of leaving work early because I knew they were doing their jobs so that the trust thing was really important. But again, it was like, if I have that privilege, so should the rest of the team. And it became a real kind of halcyon days of, you know, that office culture where we did that together as a team and that work culture, and I still believe that is probably one of the best ways to have a real thriving team.
00:12:51:18 - 00:13:15:27
Kat
So yeah, boundaries is really important. And I think what was interesting when I moved from the radio side to retail and to Apple and doing creative studios, I actually that role was actually a global role. And I got that role during the pandemic in 2021. And the role was actually supposed to be based in Cupertino, and on an on based in London.
00:13:15:27 - 00:13:36:29
Kat
And I just well, first of all, I just remember go I just got stay in London. Right. And I know that sounds bizarre, but Cupertino is not somewhere along L.A., right? It seemed to have seen us as a certain kind of, self. There. But my kid was really young, you know, at that point, I think he was eight years old, and I thought, maybe I'll do that.
00:13:36:29 - 00:14:05:04
Kat
But in the end, I just went, I'll just stay in London and do the role there. I was like, yes, this is brilliant. But I think what really, I have such a clear memory of speaking to my boss at that time. And because again, I it just I got really nervous in terms like, okay, I'm in a global romance and not just the US but Singapore, China, Beijing and Creative Studios was rolled out, you know, literally in Tokyo, Beijing, Bangkok.
00:14:05:06 - 00:14:30:02
Kat
And so it was dealing with that. And I just and she just went, what's non-negotiable? I just went Friday nights with with my family dinner time. And she just she just went, if it's that important, someone will tell you. Which is right. If it's that important, someone will tell you. And that's stuck in my mind. And it doesn't matter what the rest of the culture was or how other people's behave.
00:14:30:02 - 00:14:39:15
Kat
But it was that kind of permission to go. Of course. But the lesson there was like, you just got to make it very clear right from the start.
00:14:39:17 - 00:14:40:13
Sarah
Yeah.
00:14:40:15 - 00:15:01:25
Kat
Boundaries really clear. And if you do that right at the start, then genuinely, you know, over the last ten years that I was working at Apple and this applies to anybody in any corporate or, you know, culture or, or working culture where it is always, if you if you make really clear your boundaries at the very start, it's really it's you it they can't argue with that.
00:15:01:27 - 00:15:03:24
Kat
She made it really clear at the start.
00:15:03:27 - 00:15:33:09
Sarah
Yeah. I think the, the bind, the boundaries thing is hard. Like I, you know, reflect back and I, I was also in a global role, in the pharmaceutical industry and did not have good boundaries. And, you know, would be like, I can remember giving the kids sweets and parking them in front of the TV so that I could do work calls.
00:15:33:09 - 00:15:53:03
Sarah
And and then the fear as the sweets ran out that this, you know, they were coming in like prodding me, and, like cooking dinner with one hand and like, for underwriting your, you know, and like, oh, I was just. Yeah.
00:15:53:05 - 00:16:29:06
Kat
It's a, it's a really it's a really dreadful, horrible state, isn't it. And I think for the majority of people listening to this, this, you know, podcast, they recognize a part of themselves in that situation. I can't I can't believe any working parent or anyone who has a responsibility of caring for others, not being in that situation. But I think what was interesting, because I'm at it's so clear because I'll see the calls, because a majority of my team or colleagues were in the West Coast, so it's not even New York is West cancer hang out.
00:16:29:08 - 00:16:29:28
Sarah
Yeah.
00:16:30:01 - 00:16:51:28
Kat
So often when I was literally 4 or 5 p.m. when, you know, I was absolutely knackered or like eyeliners or like just draining down my face, the cold would start again, right? Because it would be 9:09 a.m. their time. And so and then my son would be coming home from school right after, you know, whatever afterschool club or now he's secondary school now, just, you know, coming home.
00:16:51:28 - 00:17:12:02
Kat
334 but he it became almost a joke where he would come in and just start feeding me stuff on the call. So. So I remember the mice that were leaving cold was like, we're going to miss you and your son feeding you pieces of chicken whilst you're on the cold. And then I'd be I'd be really open about.
00:17:12:02 - 00:17:31:06
Kat
I've just got to make dinner. Well, yeah. And they all got it. So again, it's been really clear. I've got to make dinner for the fam. No one question it, I promise. You know, one questioned it because I didn't allow them to question it. And so that thing of calling things out or just going, actually this is a really bad time.
00:17:31:09 - 00:17:50:27
Kat
I think what's really apparent is that a lot of people don't feel they have the culture where they can do that. Whereas, you know, I'm sure you've talked a lot about scheduling, you know, things in you, in your diary and people in back to back meetings. And so, you know, I had people on my team based in Dubai.
00:17:50:27 - 00:18:08:15
Kat
So that's three hours ahead of UK time. And they'd be like, oh, you know, back in the day the people would be like in the US who died sleep in a call, which would be midnight her time where she had a presentation. Yeah. It's not on. It's not unusual. That didn't happen on my watch because it was. But it was one of my sort of things.
00:18:08:15 - 00:18:30:29
Kat
I was really, I was really adamant about, like, the team need to have a good work life structure. They are all brilliant. They are all talented. They work their socks off, so they need that time off. And I was just horrified that they had, you know, previous, you know, experiences where they look at. Of course, if there's a massive thing that everyone has to work on that.
00:18:31:00 - 00:18:58:16
Kat
Yeah. Yep. Fine. We get that. But you know, as a constant. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So again, going back to you know, whereas you know, people live and die by their schedules and their meetings, I, you know, I believe there is a sort of spectrum of behaviors when it comes to scheduling meetings. And so it is a constant reminder that it's a people, you know, the time zones are going to you know, it is 9 p.m. does it.
00:18:58:19 - 00:18:59:03
Sarah
Yeah.
00:18:59:05 - 00:19:04:16
Kat
Can we move there? And literally 99% of times like of course again. So just ask.
00:19:04:18 - 00:19:31:20
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah I'm a lot better now a lot lot better. And yeah, if someone puts a meeting in my calendar for even like, I will decline it and, and, and then they'll have to catch me up some other way. Yeah. And. Yeah, on my end, we never also, like, blocked out. You know, I've blocked out that I'm busy from, you know, certain time.
00:19:31:24 - 00:19:53:04
Sarah
Like, can I get it? You know, it's, you know, there are accommodations, I suppose, that need to be made on both sides, you know? And and so I will, you know, I've got the luxury of doing my own thing in the morning, and then I'll maybe have a few calls like later on in the day. And I'm okay with that.
00:19:53:06 - 00:19:58:25
Sarah
But I don't want to be on the phone at like 9:00 at night when I'm getting ready for bed.
00:19:58:27 - 00:20:25:28
Kat
Yes. And I think just you saying that in terms of, protecting your morning. So that's something I really spoke to my team a lot in terms of where is your energy? And it. Oh, no, I kind of like, is it the hard way where I was probably giving a lot to my team back then. Right. And, so what's become the kind of like, the mother hen in some, some ways.
00:20:25:28 - 00:20:53:16
Kat
Right. Because I cared so much for my team, but I just remember I saw I need to carve some time out for my myself. And so I realized that the mornings for me work on sacrosanct instead of doing the stuff that I wanted to prioritize in that morning. And then once I nourished and I say the word nourish deliberately nourished what I wanted to do, then I was in a much better state to firefight or deal with or react.
00:20:53:19 - 00:21:12:11
Kat
The kind of like ongoing stuff all the day to day admin stuff or whatever. But just that was something I taught my teams is always look at in that whole entire working week and going, have you blocked out enough time to really do that deep work that you want to do that nourishes you, and then everything else plays around with that.
00:21:12:11 - 00:21:20:29
Kat
It's exactly what you say within your, you know, in your tips, right? In terms of really being quite deliberate in how you manage your own time in a work.
00:21:20:29 - 00:21:36:14
Sarah
Yeah, so, so true because many people start their day right in their inbox and that's someone else's priorities. And then the whole day gets derailed completely.
00:21:36:17 - 00:21:53:28
Kat
I mean, the whole week gets derailed. So yeah, which is why I'm such a sort of fan of your that the tips that you share. Because it's just like and, and often when you just say it to people, they go, oh yeah, the sudden realization I'm doing this or somebody else, hey you. Oh yeah. Okay.
00:21:54:01 - 00:22:27:01
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly that. And, and I think there's also something around the realization that not everything is urgent. Exactly. And, and so, you know, I've, I've, I've been in a few companies recently and talked about like, okay, maybe you do have to check your emails first thing in case it is genuinely something urgent, but you want to be coming in looking at your emails and like triaging them.
00:22:27:04 - 00:22:42:29
Sarah
So what genuinely is the stuff that's urgent? Or what are the other things that you just put on your to do list for later and then switch the email off, turn, turn, turn it off and and then get into your deep work.
00:22:43:01 - 00:22:46:04
Kat
Completely agree. Completely agree.
00:22:46:07 - 00:23:02:16
Sarah
Yeah. What about guilt? Is that something that you faced? Or maybe people in your team like the guilt of stepping away or, you know, leaving early for the school run, that kind of thing?
00:23:02:18 - 00:23:07:28
Kat
Well, before we get onto that one, do you want to talk about being broadcast critical because. Oh, yes. Yeah.
00:23:08:00 - 00:23:12:08
Sarah
I would love to hear about your, your your framework. Yeah.
00:23:12:10 - 00:23:46:03
Kat
So, we talk about sort of triaging emails and everything else. And it's interesting you say that because often I would say to my team who didn't come from the background of radio, is that broadcast critical? Right. Is that broadcast critical? And they were like, oh my God, it's not. And i.e. is that really a red alert that someone has has sent, or is that just a reactivity thing, or is it just pure disorganization from the other person.
00:23:46:05 - 00:24:13:23
Kat
Yeah. And you really got cool things out of like that's a person just disorganized and they're impacting on you and your time and they're like, you know, we monitoring you. I to run 120 events internationally per year. Right. That's a lot. Yeah. Right. And so that kind of red alert was often never a red alert. And I think that lots listening to this may identify that in their own workplace.
00:24:13:23 - 00:24:47:13
Kat
And so it's really calling that out and you know seeing what the actual issue is. And often it was just disorganization. But also I thought, you know, in terms of if it's broadcast critical, that would often, you know, pull people up, go. Actually it's not let me just brought us another time. But I think it also comes down to ensuring that you and the team also have an agreement on how best to communicate, you know, and the ways people prefer being communicated.
00:24:47:15 - 00:25:14:04
Kat
You know, so read the way the what and how to communicate is absolutely fundamental when it comes to ways of working. And so again, there are so many different channels, emails, slack, WhatsApp, phone, whatever, pigeon post, whatever, right. And so you've got to have an agreed stream of comms for this line of work and, you know, and if it's broadcast critical obviously text.
00:25:14:06 - 00:25:26:16
Kat
Yeah. But I think, you know, and it's something you cut, you know, you cover in terms of that communication in a kind of, ways of work in agreement. It's just absolutely fundamental.
00:25:26:19 - 00:25:48:07
Sarah
Yeah. Completely agree. And I think now I'm again, like learning loss through a corporate career so that now when I am starting out with people, that's one of the first things I would be covering is like, you know, how are we going to work together? How best do we work together?
00:25:48:10 - 00:25:51:13
Kat
Yeah. And having that health check every few months.
00:25:51:15 - 00:25:52:00
Sarah
00:25:52:01 - 00:26:21:22
Kat
Good point. Yeah. And you always find that the other person really welcomes that conversation as well. It's just having a quarterly health check. Sky how's it going here. Can we do things better. And it can be a really relaxed conversation. But you know you just know when things are working well or not right. So I think just having that quarterly health check in terms of ways of communicating and how different people digest information in different ways, and that's something I was fed back a lot coming from, again, the pace of radio to retail.
00:26:21:29 - 00:26:38:00
Kat
Often my appraisals would be like great delight and it just be like just slow down a bit, because I was in a working culture in radio where everyone had the same language, the same pace, the same sort of brain.
00:26:38:03 - 00:26:38:28
Sarah
Yeah, okay.
00:26:38:28 - 00:27:00:27
Kat
Right. You had an idea that would go on in two minutes time. That's how my brain worked. And then coming to to the retail side of things, it obviously it just it wasn't that sort of, you know, platform because it didn't need to be. And so I had to really slow down my thinking. And I then had to really reorganize how I did my meetings and said, okay, let's just cover a couple of points here.
00:27:01:00 - 00:27:21:05
Kat
Where's my old culture? We'd be like rattling like ten different agendas in an hour. And that would people feel energized by that. But I remember a coach saying, you know, sometimes that can really overwhelm the other person because I just need that space to think about it. And that really, not the way I would work with different people.
00:27:21:07 - 00:27:24:01
Kat
So yeah, that was a massive learning for me for sure.
00:27:24:01 - 00:27:47:22
Sarah
Yeah. Love that. I think as well, some of the stuff that I've been learning, it's there, you know, that you touched stayed on like the pace, but then it's also the like the how the information is presented. So like, making sure that, you know, maybe going in and doing training, but some people maybe need to see it rather than heat it.
00:27:47:22 - 00:28:01:20
Sarah
And so yeah, again, it's making sure that you're, you're sort of covering all the bases there too. Completely. Yeah. Nice. Oh well I'm glad you brought us back to broadcast broadcast critical.
00:28:01:22 - 00:28:03:16
Kat
I will take your mind up a.
00:28:03:18 - 00:28:30:20
Sarah
Oh yeah. Yeah, it's things like that. It's just like there's the, you know, the odd, like, question or, you know, just having that as a, as a prompt like, I love all these kind of like frameworks and ideas and different things. So yeah. And, and again, I think for the people listening, you know, I'm always encouraging people to experiment because maybe, maybe it's, it's not thinking about the triaged of emails.
00:28:30:20 - 00:28:53:17
Sarah
Maybe it is just the is this broadcast critical or not. And that's, that's the question. And sometimes an idea will land and maybe it won't. And you know, and that's okay. And that's just sort of trying out different things to see what's going to work best for you as an individual. Yeah, I love that. So let's circle back then.
00:28:53:19 - 00:29:12:24
Sarah
I think I was asking you about guilt and like, if, you know, feel has there been that sense of guilt when you're stepping away or maybe when you're, you know, being firm on a boundary, like, you know, is that something that you or a team members had to deal with?
00:29:12:26 - 00:29:37:27
Kat
So for myself, I don't think I had to deal with that guilt, because I think when you give the context of the why, it makes it far easier. And also when you create a culture where you allow others to create those boundaries, personal boundaries and healthy boundaries, then everyone just understands, right? So again, the context context side of things really helps.
00:29:38:00 - 00:30:09:19
Kat
But you're right in terms of team members or peer groups feeling the guilt. I'll see that all the time. Like all the time. And that could be for a myriad of reasons. You know, the last working culture, the last office, the last boss, you know, or a particular situation that you know, where they felt shamed. So putting a boundary in, and so, yeah, there's, there's always layers of something else that happens in order for a person to still feel that guilt.
00:30:09:21 - 00:30:21:12
Kat
But yeah, I generally feel that when you create a culture with the rest of the team, there is none that guilt. There is a certain gear change in sky. Oh, I don't need to feel guilty about this anymore.
00:30:21:15 - 00:30:23:06
Sarah
Yeah that's powerful.
00:30:23:08 - 00:30:42:18
Kat
Right. And you have to as a, as a leader or a manager, you have to be there to support them on that journey because it's not, it's not like a switch that goes, it takes your body going back to the body. Time to readjust and go. Actually I don't need to go 100mph or I can put that boundary in.
00:30:42:20 - 00:31:04:13
Kat
Or if I say no, that doesn't mean I'm going to lose out on an opportunity. Yeah. So it's the fear thing that also adds to it. And often the experience side of of of the leader or the person can go, actually I understand that fear, but it's not going to happen here because you won't there won't be any repercussions if you just say no.
00:31:04:16 - 00:31:10:11
Kat
So therefore going back to your experience give it a go. Say no to that meeting. Acknowledge that nothing will happen.
00:31:10:14 - 00:31:10:25
Sarah
Yeah.
00:31:10:26 - 00:31:30:29
Kat
It's not important. Somebody will tell you. Yeah. Honestly the kind of shift from the team feeling that guilt or that kind of oh I'm not going to be like you know, reprimanded for that. It's it soon goes because you're on that journey together and they feel supported and safe to do that. So okay. That's the culture.
00:31:31:01 - 00:31:56:26
Sarah
Yeah I love that. And I think what you said at the top there about the context as well, you know, I read things before when it's like no is a complete answered or whatever the the statement is, whereas, you know, at I think at, I think I've probably disagree, you know, and I think it, it is important to give the context as well, you know, so it's not just a no, it's a no.
00:31:56:26 - 00:32:03:15
Sarah
But here, you know, here's the story or whatever. Yeah.
00:32:03:17 - 00:32:31:03
Kat
And it's really important because most of us are all in our little bubbles. Right. And, you know, the pace that we work, you know, at or certainly in corporate culture, you know, just be focusing on one or very many things at all at the same time. So, you know, allowing that person just go to pause and just remind them, genuinely, often more, you know, more times and others that they would just go, I get it, I do get it.
00:32:31:05 - 00:32:33:19
Kat
And if I don't get it, then that's the problem.
00:32:33:22 - 00:32:36:11
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:32:36:14 - 00:32:47:02
Kat
Genuinely, as human beings, they get it. And I genuinely that's why I had such a fantastic time at Apple and everything else. Because again, the context of the boundaries were really, really clear.
00:32:47:05 - 00:33:02:22
Sarah
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Talk to us a little bit about oh yeah. Under New direction and what, what sort of inspired you to to go out on your own.
00:33:02:25 - 00:33:22:25
Kat
So it was coming up to ten years, being at Apple and similarly to when I was at the BBC and I was at the BBC for seven and a half, eight years, I new sort of intrinsically in the back of my mind that, you know, when it comes to sort of the decade, you know, it's it's not even that the what's next?
00:33:22:25 - 00:33:47:26
Kat
It's like, okay, time to review this now. And I had three amazing jobs at Apple right. And so I think this year and a half leading up to that, the ten years, I did start thinking in terms of, okay, what what it's time to kind of explore or just think about or percolate. We'll also have the luxury to do that, and it is a luxury whilst you're in a full time role.
00:33:47:28 - 00:34:13:13
Kat
And so I just remember, writing in Substack and Substack was at its infancy a couple of years ago, certainly in the UK. And I just just started I remember starting to write just for myself. Not for everyone else, not for any followers. Although shout out to the ten followers that I had. Thank you very much for reading my spirit.
00:34:13:15 - 00:34:38:08
Kat
And so I probably over a course of 12 months, wrote 4 or 5 posts, but I noticed there was a pattern in terms of when I was seeing, you know, different stages, modes when I was feeling a little bit down. And then I felt energized. In the summer, I felt more reflective. And often it would very be the very seasonal in terms of the thinking and the confidence that I had.
00:34:38:11 - 00:35:09:00
Kat
And I remember looking back just going, there's a format there, you know, and coming in. Right? Yeah. You're obsessed with formats, right? And I also at the same time, I remember conducting a job interview and, and it was a, it was a panel and right the end of the interview, one of the candidates, the candidates actually said to me, can you I looked you up on LinkedIn and you've gone from such a creative role in radio to being in retail, like, how did you do it?
00:35:09:02 - 00:35:34:16
Kat
And like, why? And I swear to God, I paused. I couldn't answer because I just couldn't articulate it. And, my colleague based in Singapore had to jump in and talk about transferable skills or whatnot, but I just it just kept to I just kept on thinking, like, why can't I answer that? And so what I did was start to really unpack the why did I move from a successful role and how do I do it?
00:35:34:18 - 00:35:51:24
Kat
And really thinking about, of all the people that I've mentor over the last few years, not just at Apple but the, you know, at the BBC as well, I often would get this question. And then I was really looking back at my career just going. I've always been I've always known or had the knack to pivot at the right time.
00:35:51:27 - 00:36:13:29
Kat
And so, oh yeah, really came about, as a format to really reflect the different changes and different moods. And when we're exploring careers. But really the greater mission and this really connects with, you know, a lot of my work over the last 30 years in terms of really sharing knowledge, insights and tools to to as many people as possible.
00:36:14:06 - 00:36:37:24
Kat
You know, you know, I have had that privilege of gaining that knowledge. But if you have that privilege, we should share it to others. I truly believe that truly, truly believe. And it shouldn't just be because you're in a privileged position where you can afford £300 an hour once alone. They are brilliant. They are absolutely brilliant. But literally the majority of people cannot afford that unless they're in the companies that get that to them.
00:36:37:24 - 00:37:16:06
Kat
Right. And so the real the, the bigger mission of our year is to really create greater access to lived experiences, wisdom and a framework for the experienced and the time poor to really figure things out as a first step. And so often, you know, the kind of the people who are at a point where they are experienced but overwhelmed because although they're juggling with young children or just overwhelmed because of other responsibilities, they don't have time to be on a really long course at night, you know, paying thousands of pounds.
00:37:16:06 - 00:37:27:20
Kat
And this was my way of going. I want them to be able to sit on the sofa and start really just reflecting and really understanding the framework which worked for me, and I'm going to give it to them.
00:37:27:22 - 00:37:28:21
Sarah
Yeah.
00:37:28:23 - 00:37:34:27
Kat
And so really that's that's how yeah, it's as a wider mission to share that knowledge to as many people as possible really.
00:37:34:29 - 00:38:04:19
Sarah
I love that, yeah. The for for those people that do engage with your your work and you know anyone listening that's movie thinking about a potential pivot and you know and I don't know all the stats but like I think there are a lot of people now going out on their own. What what movie shoots there. What sort of reflect you touched on like reflection?
00:38:04:19 - 00:38:09:28
Sarah
Like what what maybe are the initial things that they should be thinking about?
00:38:10:01 - 00:38:37:25
Kat
Yeah, there's two things really. I think it's, you know, in your current status, both in life and work, it's almost asking the clear question, why are you doing this? Not why is it status? Is it money? Is it a fear of losing both status has a lot to do with things, right? And often when you are experience you get to, you know, you spent not two decades in an industry getting your way to the top.
00:38:37:25 - 00:38:58:02
Kat
And so status does has a real. And people will say, oh no, it's not status. It is for a lot of people. Right. And, and and money is one that obviously a clear big hurdle. But for me, the seasonal guide, which is part of the offering of oh yeah, which is really supporting people over a course of a year or so.
00:38:58:02 - 00:39:22:16
Kat
And the four different stages of moods and feelings you had whilst exploring the Seasonal Guide really talks about getting really clear on the actual risk you're taking. And so often people just go, I'm losing that money. There is actually how much do you need to bring per month really, and just doing your due diligence. And so what I do in the season, God is hand off to experts who are really great at looking inside.
00:39:22:19 - 00:39:43:13
Kat
You know, giving those frameworks like Claire Barrett is fantastic from the Financial Times. Right. And so it's getting clear on the risk and it's getting clear on what you gain afterwards. And often people don't do enough homework on what the actual risk is if they are to pay that. And it's also not that big changes about starting small, but it's actually starting in the first place.
00:39:43:13 - 00:40:10:28
Kat
So often people don't even they shut themselves down or they get in their own way first before even starting to gently explore. So really, this is about gently exploring the why and actually going back to your own guiding principles and the values that you want to center yourself in in terms of, okay, this could be a new path, and that's why it's a year long companion as opposed to a six week course to that.
00:40:11:01 - 00:40:40:24
Kat
We've got enough deadlines. We've got nothing to do our to do list. We've got enough things that we're accountable for. And so really, it's really having a real playful approach to exploring what could be. And I think the second area is really what is your body saying. You know, and I think what's been interesting on a year in terms of the socials when we've been, giving time to the oh yeah crew, which is 12 wonderful humans that I speak to.
00:40:40:26 - 00:41:09:24
Kat
They're either somatic coaches, freelancers, artists, as well as purpose driven founders. So much of the kind of holistic and somatic approach to decision making is so pertinent to, like really getting to the core of, like, if something is making you feel like making you life dreading something, or you'll feel filled with dread even just thinking about that piece of work or something, your body is telling you something.
00:41:09:27 - 00:41:34:16
Kat
Yeah, the gut instinct is so is the gut instinct is not an ethereal concept. There is a reason, because you've got all these lived experiences, not 2 or 3 decades ago. This is not right. And that's your experience telling you through your body. And so I really wanted to incorporate the kind of somatic holistic approach as well as, you know, a really the all the tips and the tools and the frameworks that I've gone back to again and again.
00:41:34:16 - 00:41:41:08
Kat
And last, you know, two decades that have served me well and again, packaging and packaging that up in a seasonal guide.
00:41:41:10 - 00:41:41:29
Sarah
Yeah.
00:41:42:02 - 00:41:43:24
Kat
Who needs in their own time.
00:41:43:27 - 00:41:54:04
Sarah
Yeah. Which I really like as well on the somatic piece. So in case there's anyone listening that doesn't know what that is, do you want to explain just very quickly.
00:41:54:06 - 00:42:18:13
Kat
Yeah. The somatic approach is really integrating the mind and body so it doesn't separate the two when it comes to approaching, an issue or a decision. Right. And so that's probably my best way of explaining it. The somatic coaches themselves are probably much, far more eloquent in saying that, but it's essentially not separating the two that it's all integrated in terms of how we feel something.
00:42:18:13 - 00:42:29:17
Kat
So it's not just being led by the head and the intellectual side your body holds. A lot of that kind of, is is the right thing to do. So it's about intuition as well.
00:42:29:19 - 00:42:50:00
Sarah
Yeah. Which is something that I have struggled with, I think, in the past. And I, as a scientist, would probably in the past would have like Pooh poohed all of that and be like, no, no, you know, let's stick with the facts and come at this, you know, like a protocol and list and so on and so forth.
00:42:50:02 - 00:43:17:29
Sarah
Whereas I think now I'm a lot more aware of how I actually feel. And it doesn't happen often, but there's been the odd time when I've been making a decision and I really can feel a reaction and I'm like, okay, I need to pause here. Like, you know, I'm and like you say, I'm being told something and I just need a bit more time to reflect and think.
00:43:18:02 - 00:43:54:07
Kat
And I think from the science point of view. Right. There's so much more, academic work around hormonal balance, how hormonal balance is connected with productivity. So Amy Thompson is part of the oh yeah crew. She has created moody months. And she for the last few years has really talked about know your your energy patterns and your hormonal patterns and when and how to take advantage of that in terms of productivity and when you need to slow down and just really understand that you won't be as productive at that point of the month.
00:43:54:09 - 00:44:00:02
Kat
So I think that's really interesting and says, and, and organizing your time and your productivity.
00:44:00:05 - 00:44:35:24
Sarah
Yeah, I love that. I mean, yeah, there's so many different like when you think about like time productivity, there's so many different things that all sort of roll up and influence that, that I'm gonna, I'm, I'm conscious of time. A couple of other maybe like quick questions. So is there, a boundary or a time principle that you would now not compromise on?
00:44:35:27 - 00:44:59:05
Kat
I think it's always, family dinner time. And I'm not talking about every day. Right. Because sometimes I just want to go out and have a meal with my mates. But I think if you look at the majority of the week, the, the family dinner time without the phone and just having a conversation, no, not non-negotiable really.
00:44:59:08 - 00:45:12:15
Kat
But I think for myself, it's that morning time protecting that time, knowing what serves you well for your morning routine before the world happens to you, and then you got to react to that.
00:45:12:18 - 00:45:21:25
Sarah
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And if there was some advice that you could give to your younger self, what would that be?
00:45:21:27 - 00:45:49:16
Kat
One step at a time, right? It really is. And I it's and that might might sound obvious, but certainly being a new founder now and as we talk about productivity, have we done enough today. Can I go faster. It's just like just one step at a time. And I think, what's interesting is, you know, when when you are learning something new, you know, you know, when you get a new job or whatever, you're always learning something new.
00:45:49:16 - 00:45:58:25
Kat
You're always learning something new in your life. And so just cut yourself some slack and just know it's one step at a time. Yeah. Because critical it really isn't.
00:45:58:25 - 00:46:22:12
Sarah
Yeah yeah yeah. And and you're right. Like I think even as well you know, thinking about maybe a career pivot or launching something new and these things can feel like big unwieldy projects and, but it's breaking it down. Like what's the what's the first step that you have to take.
00:46:22:15 - 00:46:42:06
Kat
Yeah. And also I something I've been saying to my kid is, you know, when he's now learning for exams and stuff and, you know, and studying, I always say there is no magic bullet. There's no magic bullet. You just got to take it one step. It's that the consistency, which might sound boring for some, but it bloody works.
00:46:42:09 - 00:47:00:21
Sarah
Yeah, yeah I think yeah, there's probably a lot of people that would be saying consistency is boring. It's a bit like me. I'm always harping on about structure, and how structure can actually give you freedom and clarity.
00:47:00:21 - 00:47:09:01
Kat
That's. Yeah, it's clarity that it's a lack of clarity that holds people back. And clarity comes from structure. And then you can have a then you can play around.
00:47:09:03 - 00:47:15:23
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly that. Love it. No, it's been a great conversation.
00:47:15:25 - 00:47:17:04
Kat
I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.
00:47:17:04 - 00:47:23:28
Sarah
So where can our listeners find you? Where's the best place to connect with you.
00:47:24:00 - 00:47:34:18
Kat
So the best place to connect with me is either this is. Oh, yeah. Com that's the, website address or on Instagram, which is this dot is. Oh, yeah.
00:47:34:20 - 00:47:46:25
Sarah
Amazing. I will make sure that in the show notes and the links and all that sort of stuff, all the information is, is there. So yeah. Thank you so much for joining me.
00:47:46:28 - 00:47:57:12
Kat
Thanks for having me on. It's been a delight.
00:47:57:14 - 00:48:23:05
Sarah
If today's episode sparked something in you, maybe a tug towards reclaiming more of your time or rethinking what balance looks like in your business or career, maybe you're, contemplating pivot. You're going to want to check out oh yeah, as always, I'll pop all the links in the show notes so that you can explore more. Thank you for listening to On Your Time.
00:48:23:08 - 00:48:25:17
Sarah
Until next time. Bye for now.